The Dr. Jules Plant-Based Podcast
Hey, I’m Dr. Jules! I’m a medical doctor, teacher, nutritionist, naturopath, plant-based dad and 3X world championships qualified athlete. On this podcast we’ll discuss the latest in evidence-based and plant-based nutrition, including common nutrition myths, FAQs and tips on how to transition towards a healthier dietary pattern and lifestyle that creates little friction with your busy life!
The Dr. Jules Plant-Based Podcast
Breaking Free from Chronic Inflammation
Dr. Jules Cormier was living a medical nightmare. Despite being a practicing physician, he was battling severe angioedema that sent him to the emergency room with life-threatening swelling after simple activities like playing basketball or experiencing temperature changes. Medications barely managed his symptoms, and he lived in constant fear of the next potentially fatal reaction.
Everything changed when his infant daughter began experiencing similar inflammatory conditions – blood in her diapers, eczema, and asthma severe enough to require emergency care. This wake-up call led Dr. Cormier to question everything he thought he knew about nutrition and inflammation. Could the conventional medical training that barely touched on diet be missing something crucial?
Taking a leap of faith, his family began eliminating dairy and beef, gradually transitioning to a completely plant-based diet. The results were transformative – his chronic hives disappeared, his asthma improved, and his daughter's symptoms resolved. What began as a desperate attempt to help his child blossomed into a complete health transformation that freed him from medications and sparked a mission to help others understand the profound connection between food and inflammation.
In this enlightening conversation with Shauna Barker, Dr. Cormier breaks down the science of inflammation with refreshing clarity. He explains the critical difference between necessary acute inflammation (your body's natural healing response) and the dangerous chronic systemic inflammation that underlies most modern diseases. More importantly, he reveals how our dietary choices directly impact these inflammatory processes through three key mechanisms: dysbiosis (gut microbiome imbalance), oxidative stress, and lipotoxicity.
What makes Dr. Cormier's approach so powerful is his focus on sustainable change rather than perfectionism. He advocates for small, incremental adjustments that add more fiber-rich plant foods without creating friction in people's lives. This behavioral science-based strategy acknowledges human nature's preference for immediate rewards over long-term benefits, making lasting change possible even in our hyperprocessed food environment.
Ready to reduce inflammation and reclaim your health? This episode offers practical wisdom from someone who's been through the medical gauntlet and emerged healthier on the other side. Listen now to discover how simple dietary shifts might accomplish what m
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Peace, love, plants!
Dr. Jules
Yo plant-based buddies, welcome back to another episode. Today I wanted to share a recent conversation that I had with Shauna Barker. She's the host of Vegan Boss Radio, a podcast that discusses plant-based nutrition and healthy lifestyle. We talked about inflammation, we talked about how to transition to a healthy plant-based diet and I got the chance to tell the story that brought me here to you today. So hope you enjoyed this episode. I definitely enjoyed speaking with Shauna Barker. She's amazing. Go check out her content Without further ado. Here's our conversation on the Vegan Boss Radio podcast.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Vegan Boss Radio, a podcast where we explore all aspects of living a vegan lifestyle. In today's episode, we're specifically talking about the power of plants for better health. My name is Shauna Barker. I'm a plant-based nutritionist and I help people really take the guesswork out of how to follow a plant-based or vegan diet properly. I started on this path over 30 years ago and I've made every possible mistake in those early days. So now in my private nutrition practice, that is what I'm helping my clients do is making sure they're meeting all of their nutrient needs and avoiding some of those common mistakes. I'm so excited to introduce my guest for today's episode. I'm speaking with Dr Jules Cormier.
Speaker 2:Dr Jules Cormier is a physician, educator and advocate for lifestyle medicine. Since 2007, he has practiced family medicine, taught at his local medical school and led a thriving skin surgery clinic. He now teaches lifestyle medicine, nutrition and family medicine to future physicians and shares his expertise as the creator of plantbaseddrjulescom, a free resource for those pursuing better health. We talked about his journey from living with multiple health conditions in his early 20s to now living free of them thanks to adopting a whole food, plant-based diet over 12 years ago, and then we really focused this conversation on inflammation. So we talked about what it is, the difference between chronic and acute, and local and systemic, and how diet plays a role and what steps you can do to reduce levels of chronic systemic inflammation. So, yeah, it's a really interesting conversation and, as always, if you have any questions or want to get in touch, feel free to send me a DM on my Instagram, vegan underscore boss, or through my website, synergynutritionca. So hi, dr Jules, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. I'm excited to chat with you.
Speaker 1:It's my pleasure. Thanks for the invite.
Speaker 2:I know that you have shared previously about some health challenges that you are having. I don't know how many years ago maybe you can go into the details but I'm just wondering if that is what ultimately led you to start looking into a plant-based diet and how that all evolved into what you do now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so cool. So I'm 44 now. I graduated medical school when I was 26. And in my early 20s was basically where everything started to get kind of worse. I mean, we all grew up with a little bit of eczema and asthma me and my sister, my twin sister and my brother but when I got to early adulthood things kind of took a dive. I think my life was a lot more stressful when I started practicing medicine lot more stressful when I started practicing medicine and I think I was working long hours and not really eating good food and not really nourishing my body.
Speaker 1:My asthma, my eczema, got worse and then I developed something called chronic idiopathic urticaria. Chronic simply means that it doesn't go away. Idiopathic means of unknown, unknown cause and urticaria is the kind of medical term for hives. And uh, go, work out I. I go shovel snow in the winter and when I got back in um, a change in temperature triggered hives. So, um, that deteriorated into a condition called angioedema. So cholinergic angioedema is what made me change. Basically, it's where hives evolve and progress into swelling. So basically, in a nutshell, I would get the same reaction as someone who's allergic to shellfish or peanuts that would eat them. But cholinergic simply means change in temperature.
Speaker 1:My first attack happened during a basketball match. Sometimes like a third or fourth quarter started to get a tingle in my eye within half an hour where my whole face was swollen shut. And the last episode I had put me in a hospital with a you could call it an anaphylactic-like reaction. I mean, my throat was swollen, my face was unrecognizable, I couldn't put on my glasses. Obviously that was during the first years of my medical practice. So I called my friend at the ER and said get a bed ready, I'm coming in anaphylaxis. I thought I was going to die. That day Definitely felt like it.
Speaker 1:I left the clinic with a nippy pen and allergy medications and a lot of warnings about these reactions happen spontaneously, without trigger Be careful when working out, be careful when going into warm weather and then stepping into cold weather or vice versa. I mean I was a lifelong athlete so it kind of ruined my life, right. Um, every single day thinking that this next reaction is going to be the one that takes me out and I'm not going to have my epi pen on me, and so that kind of started this journey of reflecting about how I could maybe change my lifestyle, caring about what I'm putting into my body. But even with that, I didn't change. I didn't change much A year or two of taking medications every single day, still getting daily hives.
Speaker 1:My first daughter was born, zara, and within the first weeks of being born she had blood in her stools, blood in her diaper. So she was diagnosed with a milk protein allergy, eczema and asthma and we rushed her within the first few months of life to the ER because of an asthma attack. I mean basically, basically, I was seeing my daughter going through the same things as I had been dealing with for the last 10 years and that's where it all clicked. That's where I started changing my diet and started kind of shrinking towards a whole food, plant based diet.
Speaker 2:Okay, and had you ever been like looked into having a milk allergy or thought, oh, maybe I'll cut out some of like the top allergens and see what happens?
Speaker 1:Oh, exactly. I mean I'm classically trained in medicine and I was like, oh, if it were that important, I would have learned about it in medical school. I really had a closed mind at that point. And it's a dietician that said a closed mind at that point. And it's a dietician that said did you ever consider removing beef products and milk protein out of your diet? Maybe your asthma? I mean, she recommended my wife do it during breastfeeding so that my daughter wouldn't have blood in her diapers, and we agreed with that. But she also recommended that maybe we all try that right. So I was kind of surprised.
Speaker 1:I looked at the scientific literature. I was like, oh, there is quite some evidence that some people will get better. Augees will get better, asthma, eczema will get better. I had a chronic runny nose. I was taking nasal sprays. It's like nothing life-threatening but a really pain in the butt. So I was like, yeah, you um, if we're gonna do it, if my wife is gonna cut out um animal products, beef and milk from her diet to breastfeed, let's just all do it together. And within a few months, surprisingly, everyone got better. My asthma got better. My eczema had no um.
Speaker 1:I used to work out um, every single I still do. I I used to bad then too, but after my workouts I'd get hives pretty much uh, predictable hives on my body and itchy. And then I went in the shower and it got worse and, um, and I remember, a few months into it I looked at another some of my wife and said, look, no hives. This was the first sign that these changes were working. Obviously, my daughter got better quicker when we removed milk from her diet and milk protein. But the whole family just kind of saw benefits from kind of removing certain animal products and that paved the way for me to do my research and read some books and get some training and certifications in nutrition and within about a year, year and a half, we had all transitioned towards a 100% plant-based diet.
Speaker 2:Okay, so yeah, that sounds like seeing similar health issues in your daughter was maybe kind of the turning point to looking into food and what that can do for you in terms of these issues that you could have hives and anaphylactic type reactions from changes in temperature because with food, people will just avoid the food as much as possible. But how do you do that with temperature?
Speaker 1:yeah, exactly yeah.
Speaker 2:So when someone says like they have a heat rash, is that kind of the same along the same lines.
Speaker 1:So no, you can get a heat rash just related to irritation on the skin. But the concept with cholinergic urticaria or cholinergic endiodema is basically a certain type of immune cell you have circulating in your blood releases histamine. So it's not just a localized problem, it's actually a full systemic reaction, meaning it's like a full immune reaction in your blood all throughout your body. So symptoms can get pretty bad and, like I said, resemble like a full-blown allergic reaction that people would get to specific foods. Wow, it's crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's like no way to live.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's like no way to live. No, exactly yeah. But it's funny how people will and how people. But I would also tolerate these symptoms for years before getting that aha moment when it happened to my daughter. That's kind of where I was like, look, I'm take. At some point I was taking puffers and sprays and creams and pills and even with all of these medications my symptoms were just barely managed and I was doubling doses and I was hiding in my closet before basketball matches to take my meds and take my pills and take my sprays. I mean, in retrospect I'm like holy, why didn't I just clue in much sooner? Holy, why didn't I just clue in much sooner? But I think a lot of people listening to this podcast will relate Just take their medicine and go on with their lives, not knowing that lifestyle changes and nutrition and certain foods can actually heal and help reduce the risk of all of these chronic diseases.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, and it sounds like a lot of these things have to do with, like, histamine levels in the body and inflammation, like just in general. So I know we're going to talk about that, um, but I'm just wondering a little bit more about this. First, like when you were first transitioning to plant-based, it sounded like milk, like dairy, was the first to go and everyone started feeling better. And then it was like the more you learned about nutrition, then you started cutting more things out yeah.
Speaker 1:So basically I was like all right, let's do pub med research and look at the scientific literature on how to reduce the rates of all of the chronic diseases I had so asthma, eczema, urticaria, angioedema and then everything started to point towards getting most of your calories from whole plant foods and that put me on a path to Dr Barnard and Dr Greger and Dr Clapper and learning about this whole food plant-based lifestyle and I really connected with that.
Speaker 1:So basically over the next year I just kind of slowly but surely made small incremental changes that kind of added up over time and within a year I had removed all animal products. And within a year I had removed all animal products. And that's where I actually started connecting with something like a much wider why. So basically I started noticing that there were other benefits to living this lifestyle. I learned that my carbon footprint was going to be reduced by more than half and then started to learn about documentaries about animal cruelty and exploitation and I was really like starting like, firstly I I transitioned for health reasons. I began an open plant-based diet because of the scientific literature, uh, being a doctor and and seeing what was going on in my family and my kids, but I mean, that was more than 12 years ago and now I connect with this lifestyle on a whole other level.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, that's, that seems to be a similar path for a lot of people who maybe get into it for environmental or health reasons. But then it just kind of evolves and like, the more you learn, the more you realize like, oh, we, like what we're doing to animals is doesn't resonate, it doesn't feel right anymore. So yeah, I feel like a lot of guests kind of have similar stories like that.
Speaker 1:It's like a small. I remember at the beginning where I was kind of surrounding myself with resources online and listening to podcasts and documentaries kind of surrounding myself with resources online and listening to podcasts and documentaries and I remember at that point I still had a little bit of animal products in my diet but I really felt like some people were the messaging and the way they communicated their love and passion and advocacy for veganism really made me feel guilty and I just remember and that's where I was like, oh, I want to reach, I want to start talking about this as well, but I'm just going to maybe just try, I'm going to stay in my lane, change my phrasing. I did it for health reasons.
Speaker 1:I understand that not everyone wants to go all the way, but I think we need more people reducing their animal products on their plate. Then I think for a lot of people they really don't want to reduce that much to a hundred because it doesn't. It creates friction with a lot of people's lives. So my whole platform is about going slow, getting to that point where you are on a whole food plant-based diet. That's my whole platform, but just doing it in small, incremental changes so it doesn't cause too much friction with your life, because I do know a lot of people.
Speaker 2:It can backfire to be too too quick, too fast, too intense, too too too quick yeah, yeah, I totally agree, and I think we do see that in in some people who maybe go really, really extreme and restrictive in terms of, like, the diet part, where maybe they go raw or fruitarian or do 30-day water fasts and and then now they're on a carnivore diet.
Speaker 1:And my whole thing is to do it in a scientifically validated and evidence-based way so that people get actually healthier, Because you can't absolutely do plant-based diets in an unhealthy way, Raul. So the whole point here is to do it in an evidence-based way where people get their help back right.
Speaker 2:I'm wondering what kind of your thoughts and your feelings are, maybe at that point where you started reversing all of these health conditions that you had where like about going through medical school and not really finding the answers about going through medical school and not really finding the answers.
Speaker 1:Well, that has led me to a decade-long journey of including nutrition training in medical school. I mean, I have a privileged position. I work in a teaching clinic where 85% of doctors in our province of New Brunswick in Canada will go through our doors and meet our teachers. So there's something there. I mean we need to be teaching the next generation to be, at least at a base level, scientifically literate in nutrition, in evidence-based nutrition. Right, we're lucky in Canada.
Speaker 1:Our Canadian food guide is pretty much a plant-based diet. I mean, the micro-sum of the plate is whole foods and 25% is a protein food group with special focus on plant protein. So we have the data that the plant-predominant diet is healthier and now we just need to get it into medical schools so that doctors can trickle that information down to their patients, right? So the last decade has been me fighting to try to get nutrition education in our medical curriculum and next year July 2026, will be our first cohort of interns that will go through a hundred hours of training in lifestyle medicine and nutrition plant predominant nutrition. So I know that that'll, that'll. I mean my wish is to change the whole healthcare system where I work, but if we can change one doctor, we can maybe change a lot of patients right that recognize that a lot of the diseases that we're seeing in the clinic today can be managed, reversed and prevented just with a healthy lifestyle and diet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that sounds like a really amazing initiative.
Speaker 1:It was a long time coming but I thought overwhelming support from people in my community and from the doctors I work with. So I really feel like the next generation of doctors will know what a plant predominant diet means and will be aware and comfortable with the literature so that they're comfortable in making nutrition recommendations to their patients. I mean most doctors. They don't know the differences between a paleo diet, a keto diet or a carnivore diet, and even a vegan diet can be unhealthy if it's not well planned Right. So it's all about that planning part that we need to get doctors on board.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally. I'm wondering now if we can kind of, if you can share a little bit around inflammation. I know it's it has been kind of a hot topic for a while. You know anti-inflammatory cookbooks and a lot of, I feel like, fear mongering around maybe certain foods that that people like increase inflammation and then maybe kind of exaggeration of other foods or supplements that decrease inflammation. So I'm wondering if we can just get to like the straight facts, like the evidence-based info around inflammation.
Speaker 1:My pleasure. So, first of all, people demonize inflammation. We absolutely need inflammation. It's a normal reaction to injuring our bodies. So, for example, the way I explain it to patients, it's important to understand the difference between localized and systemic inflammation and as well acute and chronic, right so the different types. So if I pick at my hand and scratch it for a while, it'll become red. Now the reason it becomes red is because there was microscopic trauma my nail scratched, my skin ruptured cell membranes, there were chemicals that were spilled over and these chemicals are going to recruit immune cells. So your immune system or the soldiers that are going to go on site, they're basically going to clean up and they're going to help heal and replace the damaged tissues with new ones. So that's acute inflammation. It's a normal protective physiologic response that we want, and in this case it's an acute, localized, so there's not inflammation coursing through my body. My skin is red where I picked at it right Now.
Speaker 1:Imagine that that injury, stimuli or that trauma is chronic, meaning I don't stop picking at it. I pick at it every single second for the next three months. Well, at some point the capacity of our body to heal is going to be over, will not be able to compensate for the amount of trauma. So at some point our ability to heal, we're just not going to be able to heal and your body's going to be like let's just the hell with healing, let's just replace it with a temporary patch or a permanent scar, right? So you see, in that situation, chronic inflammation actually leads to something that's not healing, leads to scarring and to loss of function.
Speaker 1:Now imagine that that injury, instead of it being me picking at it, is one of the three main causes of inflammation. Now, inflammation is a response to the injury, but if the injury is chronic, then you get chronic inflammation. So the three main contributors are dysbiosis, which is a term for an unbalanced gut microbiome that can lead to chronic injury, and chronic inflammation. So a bad diet, for example, could do that. Second one is oxidative stress. So oxidative stress means basically, life creates oxidation. It's reactions with oxygen, much in the same way as if you cut an apple in half and you leave it on the counter. It'll brown. That's an oxidation reaction. And also lipotoxicity, which just means you're carrying excess body fat and body weight. Typically that creates inflammation.
Speaker 1:So the issue is that chronic inflammation doesn't heal anymore. It actually starts harming you and we should be talking about chronic systemic inflammation. Are not eating enough fiber or fiber quantity or variety, and people have dyes that are low in antioxidants, so that means there's a lot of oxidation, there's a lot of overweight and obesity and there's a lot of dysbiosis an unbalance in your gut microbiome. All of these contribute to chronic inflammation, and chronic inflammation can be measured. It can actually be checked in a blood test and you can have a CRP level research studies. We'll use different inflammatory markers, but it can be measured, and what we know is that people that have high levels of chronic systemic inflammation have higher rates of cardiovascular disease, strokes, heart attacks, cancers, autoimmunity and neurodegenerative disease like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. So there's a very, very strong association between having a lot of oxidative stress, dysbiosis and lipotoxicity with chronic inflammation, and that chronic inflammation increases the risk of pretty much all of the chronic diseases that we see in our clinic.
Speaker 2:Right, okay, yeah, I was gonna ask, like, what the most common health conditions are that are very strongly linked to chronic inflammation. So you've mentioned some of them, but what about things like when the inflammation is localized to the joints or, in your case, asthma in the lungs or eczema with the skin?
Speaker 1:So people who suffer from like, for example, crohn's or colitis, where the inflammation is primarily seen in the gut lining, or arthritis, rheumatoid arthritis or lupus, where it's mostly in the joint. It's mostly in the joint, but it is a chronic systemic inflammation. There's inflammation everywhere and most people who would have suffered or seen people suffer with these conditions know that the manifestations are even like people who have arthritis have manifestations in their eyes. Sometimes they actually have symptoms that manifestations in their eyes. Sometimes they actually have symptoms that are out of the joint. Most of the symptoms are localized in the joint, but there's inflammation everywhere, right, okay, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. I'm wondering maybe we can talk about foods Like what are some key foods, would you say, that do promote inflammation and what's the why behind it? Yeah, perfect.
Speaker 1:So there are different ways, or three different ways, of seeing inflammation. In terms of relation to food, if you zoom in very, very close, you'll see that certain specific nutrients are associated with either being pro-inflammatory or anti-inflammatory. If you zoom out a little bit, you'll see that certain food or food groups are associated with being pro or anti-inflammatory, and then, if you zoom out even more, you'll see dietary patterns being associated with inflammation or not. And then, if you zoom in a fourth, final layer, you'll notice that your diet is just one of the things that also contributes to inflammation. So, zooming out, I tell my patients are you living an anti-inflammatory lifestyle? Because exercise, sleep, stress management, social connections they all impact either positively or negatively your inflammation. Now, in terms of foods, we know that the three main mechanisms that I spoke about earlier for inflammation is oxidative stress, lipotoxicity and dysbiosis. So the specific nutrients that fight inflammation would be like fiber, antioxidants, vitamin A, c, e and phytochemicals. So you could say well, the foods that help inflammation are the foods that contain these things, and the foods that cause inflammation are the ones that don't contain these things.
Speaker 1:Now we also have studies showing that specific nutrients can cause inflammation, typically saturated fat, compounds like AGEs or compounds that you would see inside of processed meats, for example, or red meats. So, if you're looking at foods that tend to cause inflammation, they're typically going to be like processed meats, red meats, foods that are high in saturated fats um, typically these are animal products, uh, is, that are deficient in fiber. So you would see highly ultra processed foods, foods that contain added sugars um, so sugary sodas, for example. So typically the foods that promote inflammation will be ultra processed foods, red and processed meats and foods that contain high levels of saturated fat. But also keep in mind that just getting excess calories from any foods is going to be pro-inflammatory because they promote lipotoxicity, right? Just so happens that these ultra-processed foods they are deficient in fiber, deficient in antioxidants and phytochemicals, and typically contain added sugar and added saturated fats to make them hyperpalatable, right? So I think that your typical junk food or ultra-processed food would be the typical foods that would contribute to inflammation, and the foods that are anti-inflammatory are the foods that are high in fiber, low in saturated fat, low in added sugars, that contain phytochemicals and that are nutrient dense but low in calorie density.
Speaker 1:Now, by that definition, we're basically talking about whole plant foods, right? Yeah, there's this research on the dietary inflammatory index that simply looks at someone's diet and tries to give positive or negative points, depending on whether your foods are contributing or helping inflammation. Now, typical points that protect or are protective are given to whole plants, fruits, veggies, legumes, nuts and seeds, herbs and spices, whole grains and typically, foods that get positive points which are harmful are ultra-processed foods and foods high in saturated fat, like processed meats, for example. So whole plants are pretty much protective and ultra-processed foods and most animal products are harmful, but foods like fatty fish that are rich in omega-3 are typically protected in these studies.
Speaker 2:Right. I think I've come across one study where they were looking at CRP levels in vegans versus non-vegans and it was like significant the difference. So I'm wondering if that's like a common thing that you do see, maybe even like in practice or just in the literature absolutely so.
Speaker 1:Um, people that typically eat vegan diets are getting diets that are typically zooming out higher in fiber, lower in calorie density.
Speaker 1:They have healthier body weights, um, and typically people who choose to live this lifestyle are people that do care about their health and the health of their planets.
Speaker 1:So maybe there's association to other healthier behaviors there and the outcome of having a crp level that's in the normal range or not will will be impacted by the foods you eat and how you sleep and how you manage your stress and if you live a life of purpose and passion that's aligned with your values. So all of these things they contribute to the ultimate outcome, which is crp levels. But we do have a ton of studies looking at crp tnf, alpha, il6, other inflammatory markers that show that the trend in lowering inflammatory markers correlates to the percentage of calories you're getting from whole foods. So my patients ask do I have to be 100% plant-based? I say you don't have to run a marathon to be healthy. So I mean, I want you to go 100% whole food, plant-based and have have a healthy, planned vegan diet. But really, if you're just looking at the data, you just have to make steps in the right direction and your inflammatory parameters will get better right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes so much sense. I think the average fiber intake I don't know maybe the statistic for Canada, but in the US I think it's 15 grams a day, which is half of what is recommended, and then the average for a plant-based diet is like 45 grams a day. So even that difference alone, I feel like, would do wonders, and I'm wondering your thoughts around this messaging that we're kind of seeing now from certain communities that fiber is unnecessary, we don't need it, it doesn't do anything.
Speaker 1:There never has been a study showing that people who increase their fiber have poor health outcomes. Fiber is protective across the board on reducing the rates of pretty much every single chronic disease. Now, having someone deny that that science exists, when we have all of the different levels of proof all converging towards fiber is protected in a dose-dependent manner, I can only shake my head. But that tells me what type of wellness influencer you are.
Speaker 1:If you don't believe in fiber, that means you do not know how to interpret science. Uh, you're not familiar with the different levels of scientific proof and that hierarchy of proof. Uh, and you were likely living in some type of echo chamber where you're just simply um denial, because I mean there's no. I understand that some people will debunk a single study, but I mean we don't have a single study. We'd have hundreds and thousands of studies all pointing towards the same direction more fiber is better and reduces the rates and is protected for pretty much all diseases we have and risk factors for these diseases. So for me, the proof is almost irrefutable that fiber is protective. And someone that says the opposite, I mean I think I can't even argue with them because I don't think they're open to hearing anything.
Speaker 2:I have to say, yeah, I think you're right and yeah, I feel like, too, the foods that are rich in fiber. They're also usually rich in antioxidants too.
Speaker 1:Exactly so if we're looking at the three mechanisms that contribute to inflammation, oxidative stress, dysbiosis and lipotoxicity. If you're eating a high-fiber diet, by default you're eating foods that are high in fiber, high in antioxidants and that are low in calorie density and that help promote weight loss and weight management. So, by default, if you're eating a lot of fiber, you're likely eating whole plant foods that are minimally processed or not processed at all, which means that you're, by default, on a dietary pattern that is evidence-based to protect you against pretty much all of our chronic diseases, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally. I'm wondering if there are any, maybe foods that you've seen blamed for inflammation, like incorrectly, like someone will say you know, avoid lectins because they cause inflammation, or anything along that along those lines, and then, on on the flip side, if you ever see things being promoted as anti-inflammatory that just aren't yeah, I have trouble with these claims because then we, we attribute your whole body's inflammation to one single thing that you're doing, where it's the amalgamation of your like, like I say, your sleep, your stress, your exercise, your food.
Speaker 1:Right, typical foods are well, you've named it, we have phytates and oxalates and we have lettans and single nutrients, zooming in, single nutrients in certain foods to cause inflammation. But that's where people who do not understand the different hierarchy of proof, different levels of proof, are zooming in on one mechanistic study, looking at one single nutrient where, when we zoom out and look at, okay, you're claiming that the lectins and beans are pro-inflammatory. Let's just look at the data of people who beans and people who eat beans live longer and have reduced rates of chronic diseases, even when you account for the other healthy behaviors that they maybe have because they're eating beans. I mean, so it's just misinterpreting, misinterpreting the data. But I mean the algorithms eat that up. Right, if you're demonizing something and you're fearful, um, people will, that'll get views and it'll get shared. And I mean I'm sure that if people that have low levels of literacy in education and nutrition hear that lectins are toxic and they've they know what toxic means, but they don't know what lectins mean, I mean, very rapidly they can be convinced that there's something to avoid.
Speaker 1:Right, there's a lot of nuance that needs to be discussed when talking about pro or anti-inflammatory behaviors. But I mean, that's not sexy and it doesn't hit the algorithm the right way, and it takes more than 10 seconds of a reel to really kind of discuss these nuances, right? So I don't blame the public for being confused and for accepting whatever they hear, because they probably hear it over and over again. And if you have the, if you click like on one of these posts, you're just going to be seeing them over and over again. And all of a sudden, these people, they look confident. They're not wearing a shirt, they have a six-pack, they must be doing something, right. So I might as well avoid lettings too, right, and that's what I think people think, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then do you think there's certain foods or supplements that people try to promote or sell as like the anti-inflammatory cure, kind of?
Speaker 1:Well, and if we zoom in real quickly, real close up, the nutrients that are typically associated with being anti-inflammatory are healthy omega-3 fats, are no chemicals vitamins A, c and E. But that being said, if you're taking high dose vitamin e, it actually increases mortality and if you're taking high dose vitamin a, it can be toxic for your liver. So it's like people don't understand the nuances. Just because something is deemed, uh, helpful, protective or anti-inflammatory, more isn't always better. So we're seeing these green powders now being like, being sold everywhere, um, I mean, I, I and I posted about this.
Speaker 1:Uh, recently someone, one of my patients, were kind of desperate to get healthier and she got toxicity, neuroticity, nerve damage by excess vitamin B6 because she was taking a whole bunch of different supplements. She had a stack of four different supplements that were recommended by her wellness coach and she was like at 140 milligrams of that vitamin per day, where the upper limit is a hundred. She was more than 50 percent over that limit for about eight months and she ended up with nerve damage because her ankyl inflammatory gummies, um, were overshooting the safe dose of these vitamins. Right, so well. Now for me it's so difficult because it's like common sense has left the discussion when we're zooming in to specific nutrients.
Speaker 1:Now, some of these nutrients are super helpful and can help, like vitamin D, for example, or taking 12 if you're on a healthy plant-based diet. But some of these vitamins are actually dangerous, even if they're considered to be anti-inflammatory Right yeah, they're considered to be anti-inflammatory, right yeah. So we see these supplements be promoted online without taking into consideration the big picture, which is your baby getting enough B6 in your diet, or you may be already overshooting your vitamin A because of your three other supplements, but people don't have that nuance and they don't take the time to talk to their healthcare provider or pharmacist or dietician, and people get in trouble by taking these supplements, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it can also happen where maybe someone wants to decrease inflammation in their body and they don't see the posts about. You know how you do that is adding more fiber, adding more antioxidants from whole plant foods and and limiting saturated fat, and instead they continue their diet that's lacking fiber and antioxidants and this high in saturated fat, and then they take bottles and bottles of turmeric, for example in high dose turmeric or turmeric in people forget the dose makes the poison, right?
Speaker 1:yeah, some things in low dose are ineffective and some things at moderate dose are helpful. I give the example of tolanol. I say if you take a little bit of Tylenol, if you take two milligrams of Tylenol, it'll do absolutely nothing. If you take 500, you might have less pain and less fever, but if you take 5,000, you might kill yourself with. That medication might cause liver failure. The same thing goes for foods and the same thing goes for vitamins. And so I've had patients have hepatitis or liver inflammation that we can measure on blood work because of excess turmeric. Right, it's just more natural, so it has to be safe. These compounds are metabolized through the same enzymes that metabolize synthetic drugs, right. So natural does not mean safe, and these things can add up. If you're taking turmeric plus other things that could possibly challenge your liver, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if you have a liver inflammation, liver markers that can go up, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, why do you think there is such like a disconnect with that information of you? Know, if you adopt this dietary pattern so like just start incorporating more whole plant foods, that is going to significantly cause less inflammation than you know, eating the same diet but then just taking a supplement. Is it kind of like people just want like a quick fix and don't want to kind of look at their food?
Speaker 1:so? For, first of all, there's well, that's multifaceted. There's the food environment, right? So, first of all, people don't human nature is will adopt behaviors that don't create much friction with our lives and that have immediate rewards. If you, if you're on autopilot, you're going to go for the immediate gratification rather than waiting for the long-term benefit, right? So that's where studies show that up to 50% to 60% of our daily calories in children and adults are coming from hyper-processed, ultra-processed, hyper-palatable foods that are super rewarding as soon as as you put it in your mouth, right? Um, they're devoid of fiber and of nutrients, but they taste great. Um, and that's our food environment.
Speaker 1:Now, people eat so much ultra processed food that eating fruits and veggies is people consider that going on a diet, right I? A healthy dietary pattern, is now not the norm, right? And it creates friction because, I mean, I can just talk for myself, but when I transitioned to a whole food, plant-based diet 12 years ago more than 12 years ago it created friction with my life At the beginning. If your taste buds are kind of used to eating Fruit Loops and hyper-processed Lucky Charms cereal, your bowl of oil is not going to be that tasty, right? So you have to be educated by knowing that this will get better within a few weeks and you just maybe start with maybe some maple syrup in your oatmeal in your oatmeal, just to make it palatable, and your taste buds will reset.
Speaker 1:But that being said, it's simple. But it's not easy because our environment is constantly nudging us towards the hyper processed foods and the behaviors that are easier. I'd much rather sit and watch a film with my kids than go run a 10k, so people want that immediate reward, but I know that long term I'll feel much better by doing the thing that's uncomfortable first right. That's why most of our population is unhealthy, because it's just easier to choose the unhealthy behavior.
Speaker 2:Right. What would you say maybe to someone that does feel really overwhelmed by nutrition advice or maybe thinks plant-based means you're restricting your diet? What's the best advice to get started there.
Speaker 1:You make a great point where people think that going on a plant-based diet means removing things, and my whole focus is what are we going to add to the diet that you already have? So when I see a patient, for example, that wants to transition towards a plant-based diet, I say let's not transition to a plant-based diet. Let's look at what you're eating right now. Tell me what you ate for breakfast, for lunch and supper and let's tweak that right. So if someone says I'm already eating a bowl of oatmeal, I might say let's switch your cow's milk for soy milk, or let's sprinkle some hemp seeds in there, because it will increase your fiber, omega-3 and protein without you even tasting it. So it's about low friction, incremental changes. If you're eating chili, well, just dump a can of black beans in there. That's a low friction. So for me it's all about behavioral science. That's more important than the outcome. The ultimate goal is to get to a super healthy diet, but the ultimate challenge is changing behaviors. Healthy diet, but the ultimate challenge is changing behaviors. Now changing behavior is where the magic is at, and typically that means that the behavior that I'm going to change for this patient will be different than the behavior I'm going to change in the next patient because their situation, their budget, their values, their desires, their goals, their context everything is different. It sounds so simple saying you just eat a whole food, plant-based diet, but that single mom of three kids that needs now to cook two meals, that's not going to work right. So I look at patients where they're at right now and we just make small swaps, small tweaks, or we focus on adding more healthy plants to what they're all doing and over time it'll crowd out the unhealthy behaviors and unhealthy foods that they have on their plate. But that means that we need to have someone that wants to invest the next few months, maybe even years.
Speaker 1:Look, I'm a very intense person. I wanted to transition to a plant-based diet overnight, but I teach behavior science and I teach the course on coaching change. I teach that course to patients, but also to medical interns, and I knew that even I, who was highly motivated to change quickly, needed to see shades of gray. It cannot be black or white, because it needs to be sustainable. No one wants to change for six months and then go back and fail.
Speaker 1:So you need to put yourself in a position where you go through small positive victories and wins, because that'll create positive reinforcement, and the power of positive reinforcement is infinitely, exponentially more valuable than feeling restricted. Right, Because willpower is a finite resource and it will end up going away. At the beginning, when you're scared, or when you had your rash or medical condition, or your brother just had a medical issue and you're really highly motivated, you can rely on willpower for that spark, for sure. But I mean, if you want to change over the long term, willpower will fade and then you have to be. You'll be left with sustainable habits hopefully that you'll learn over time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I couldn't agree more and that is exactly my approach in my practice to like finding out what people are already eating for breakfast, lunch and dinner and then doing small little adjustments of something to add in. I think even just that difference in mindset between adding something to your diet versus taking something away from your diet, that even that alone makes all the difference.
Speaker 1:I mean, a few weeks ago one of my patients came in. She was super, super confused about nutrition advice online. Her blood pressure was higher, blood sugar, her cholesterol was high. It's like I don't know who to believe anymore. Can you just give me ideas of a healthy snack that would help me? And like, what are you eating now?
Speaker 1:Well, I'm always on the road so I need to have a healthy snack in my backpack. So I always have like this hyper-processed granola bar that she showed to me. It was like well, what are other convenient snacks that you can kind of bring with you and that wouldn't kind of um, I don't know the word in English but become uh, damaged or or unedible? It's like, well, I was like maybe a banana, maybe a, um, hummus and peppers, and she looked at me like I was an alien. Um, it was like it was so simple a banana or an apple or pepper and hummus, or a handful of nuts.
Speaker 1:I mean, people are really starting from scratch when you're trying to coach them into a healthy diet, when they're not even thinking that just a handful of nuts could be a healthy alternative to a hyper-processed snack, right? So I don't tell people what to do, I ask them where they're at and I ask them do you have any suggestions that you're thinking of? And maybe I make some if they don't have any. But typically the answers that I provide are super simple and they're nothing complex. Right, it's making small, small changes that people are like yeah, I can absolutely eat an apple for my snack, right? Um, it has to be realistic and it has to be sustainable. Uh, it has to help them have this small victory and then they'll.
Speaker 2:They'll see that the whole process of getting healthier is not that complex, right yeah, and unfortunately that type of information doesn't spread online like simple or basic or like something we've heard our whole lives. Eat your fruits and vegetables.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that doesn't get out there like that doesn't have the like uh appeal to go viral, I guess yeah, in the way that health experts communicate online, people that have real expertise is typically not using these buzzwords, right? People who are experts typically say, well, it depends. We have to zoom out, there's nuance and that doesn't fit in a 10-second video, right? So we appear unsure. We don't want to be a confident or confident, whereas well, the reason you have a headache is because you don't have enough salt. Just drink salt in your water and you'll be cured. I mean, that sounds so confident and and and I that appear unsure. Um, that doesn't get much traction online.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's too bad and it leads to so much confusion. Hopefully, with people like you and like other doctors that are getting into nutrition and lifestyle medicine, we can get the right messaging out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I hope. Well, and I I'm surprised because a few years ago, when I started my platforms, I was like, yeah, I'm going to get a like and a comment from my aunt and my mom. But I mean, I live in a very small community, a town of a few thousand people, and my page has grown considerably because I think people are looking for someone who's just down to earth, authentic, and are looking for someone who's just down-to-earth, authentic and just shares nuanced At Poster Long. My podcasts are 30 minutes. I don't have any buzzwords or hyperbolic claims, but I do think that people have been so used to seeing this manicured message that they're kind of looking for someone who just shares real information. Right, that's realistic, because people are catching on that these magical um claims and magical supplements are aren't going to get you your help back, right?
Speaker 2:yeah, exactly I'd love for you to share about your podcast and your, your social media and everything, but I'm wondering if we can do a few rapid fire questions. Absolutely. What is your go-to meal when you're busy?
Speaker 1:It is a smoothie bowl all day long. So now I mean probably in a record time, in about four minutes I can whip up a smoothie bowl with berries and greens and protein powder and granola and all sorts of hemp seeds, chia seeds and flax seeds and nuts. So super nutrient, dense, super quick to whip up and super healthy.
Speaker 2:Love it. One supplement you think most people would benefit from.
Speaker 1:Well, if they're on a whole food, plant-based diet, everyone should be on B12, no questions asked. But if, appealing to the general public public I'd probably say vitamin d is probably something that people are highly deficient in, but I mean, I could probably see the same thing for omega-3, for example. So, uh, I'd say vitamin d probably for most people, because, uh, you would need very high doses to for it to become dangerous for, but if you're supplementing with anything from 1,000 to 2,000 units per day, you're probably at a safe level and just increasing your vitamin D levels in your blood and that's helping to reduce your rates of certain diseases.
Speaker 2:Okay, and then what's one myth about inflammation that you wish would go away?
Speaker 1:Well, the myth that one single food will cause it. I'll give you a quick example. I have a recipe book on my website and someone, uh, sent me a comment that I can't believe that you're using, um, that type of granola in your in your recipe because it's rich in sugar and I'm like people are demonizing sugar. The issue isn't the sugar. The issue is the added sugar in the hyper-processed foods that you're going to then overeat. So people claiming that sugar is inflammatory they're missing the whole picture. I mean, after I run a 10K, I on purpose consume sugar to replete my glycogen stores because that will help my muscles recover. I'm not worried about inflammation, but I think there's just too much nuance missing in people. Demonizing a single nutrient without looking at the big picture is really one of my pet peeves.
Speaker 2:Okay, yes, so many good points there, and I think it's really common that we see that. And then, what is your favorite type of cuisine?
Speaker 1:Oh wow, I would probably go with Mexican cuisine. I mean brown rice and beans and salsa and guac. That would make a great burrito. That's my go-to wrong there?
Speaker 2:yeah, amazing. Um, and then what's one thing you wish everyone understood about food and health?
Speaker 1:well, the first thing that I would say is your health outcomes will be determined by what you do most of the time over the long term. Right? So people are familiar with the 80-20 rule and I agree that, although I eat 100% whole food plant-based diet and live a vegan lifestyle, I know that for some people this can seem a little complicated and I think that if people focus on the basics just a healthy diet that has enough protein, enough fiber, not too many calories and a variety of whole plant foods they sleep well, they manage their stress with meditation or yoga or exercise and they have a strong social connection with people around them and they live a life of passion and purpose. I think these are the big pillars and if you do that most of the time, over the long term, that will have infinitely more impact on chronic disease risk than whatever magical supplement that you're paying hundreds of dollars for per month.
Speaker 2:Yeah, amazing. Per month, yeah, amazing. I mean, yeah, that when we zoom out and look at the big picture.
Speaker 1:I think you mentioned all of the things that that really matter yeah, people are not eating enough fiber or not exercising, are not sleeping well, they're not managing the stress, but they're. They're focusing on adding creatine to their diet. And I mean the thing is, is that there's always a nugget of truth? I mean, creatine is great, it has a lot of good science, but is it is something that you do to get that extra three to five percent right, whereas over 95 are basic lifestyle pillars that people don't have to get right first, right, yeah yeah, yeah, I always like let's get the fashion there first before you start looking at all these extra things you can do.
Speaker 1:Totally agree. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then yeah, any any last words of advice for our listeners? And then, if you can tell us about your, your podcast and your platform and everything, podcast and your platform and everything cool.
Speaker 1:Well, I'd say, um, for those that kind of are confused by information online or overwhelmed, uh, that is a totally normal reaction. Um, unfortunately, people just need to zoom out right and see the big pillars and I'd say the. My take-home message is just make small, incremental changes that create minimal fortune with your life. These changes add up. Uh, I, for me, I transitioned over about a year to a year and a half and every single month I had a goal and that goal was to replace an animal product with a whole plant food. And over like a year after, I just kind of found myself on a whole food, plant-based vegan diet and I really connected with the diet I was on. I really connected with my why and the environmental impacts and protecting animals, and so that really kind of brought me on this journey of sharing, and right now I share a lot on Facebook, a lot on Instagram, and so that really kind of brought me on this journey of sharing and right now I share a lot on Facebook, a lot on Instagram.
Speaker 1:I created the Plant Days Dr Jules podcast to talk about nutrition science and how to transition on a healthy, plant-based diet, but I share a lot more than that. I'm like at my almost, I think, between 80 and 85 episodes. It's a weekly podcast that you can find everywhere, but I also discuss a lot about evidence-based lifestyle medicine. So exercise, stress management, sleep, and sometimes I zoom in to specific nutrients myself, like creatine, with always that disclaimer that this one nutrient is not going to revolutionize your life. But most of the time I have a zoomed out approach where we just kind of talk about the big pillars and small changes that people can make to their lifestyle and to their diet to kind of inch them towards less heart attacks, less strokes, less Alzheimer's and just a healthy lifestyle.
Speaker 2:So that people can find that if they search Plant-Based Dr Jules.
Speaker 1:Yeah, plant-based Dr Jules podcast and I'm on everywhere you can find your podcasts.
Speaker 2:Amazing, I bet there's like so much good information in those episodes.
Speaker 1:Thank you. I appreciate that we got lucky. I mean, I've been online now for about a year and a half and my podcast has won already three awards here in Canada and I got 50,000 downloads a few months ago. So for a very niche podcast talking about plant-based diets and lifestyle medicine, I'm quite happy with the reach.
Speaker 2:That's incredible. That's going to help so many people. Wow, I appreciate that, yeah, well, thank you so much for your time today and sharing your wisdom, and I think there's some really, really good practical tips in there for everyone to benefit from.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Take care.
Speaker 3:Take care, Bye-bye hey everyone Go check out my website plantbaseddoctorjulescom to find free downloadable resources, and remember that you can find me on Facebook and Instagram at Dr Jules Cormier, and on YouTube at Plant-Based Dr Jules.
